回复主题: [别吵了--打枪游戏和RPG的完美结合] 欧美RPG的战斗系统进化 ---挖坟
作者:RestlessDream

原帖由 dazzle 于 2007-3-14 19:41 发表
老头4战斗系统很好么,也就是10小时的新鲜
平衡度很糟糕,升级系统十分纱布,认真打PC版的有几个不打平衡性mod和leveling mod的?
至于说难度,也就那么回事,OOO+最高难度也打过了,潜行+召唤,再多的敌人一点一点磨也搞得定
另外打中敌人的打击感十分之糟糕,砍到盾牌上被弹飞的感觉倒是十足...

说它是发展方向,不敢同意
再说用技能升技能长能力这种成长手段SAGA早就用烂了,没觉得ES4比SAGA做出了多少好的创新来,反而是敌人能力的提升幅度做的远不如saga合理


我所说的Oblivion的系统进行了全面的精简和平衡是相对Morrowind而言的

刚上手的时候我也在NTRPG发过关于Scale-leveling系统一些毛病的帖子,不过总的来说问题并不大,或者说Scale-leveling带来的好处还是大大优于其缺点的。怪物和战利品随着人物等级提升而提升当然是个增加游戏挑战的系统。至于说有几个人不打 Francesco's Leveled Creatures/Items mod 这个补丁,我想绝对是大多数人。Oblivion里的“Leveling item”其实就那么几个,要说影响到什么“平衡性”,太夸张了吧。

至于说系统,恰恰在于高难度下的玩法很多,你惯用潜行+召唤只是一种套路,实际上Oblivion的技能虽然精简了,但深度都更有趣了。
这两天开始着手写Oblivion的功略,上GameFAQs查资料,正好看到一种Atronach星座衍生出来的变态法师打法,极其有趣,靠吸收和自己召唤的ghost打自己来吸收魔法。Spellcatcher,暂译为“吸法师”

The Atronach
(Fortified Magicka 150
Spell Absorption 50
No Magicka regeneration! )

This sign is just great. And I'm not talking about the Magicka bonus.
I would pick it even if it had a Magicka malus - the real special is
the 50% Spell Absorption - imagine this: You get hit by magic in only
50% of all cases, the rest gets absorbed completely. If you get items
or spells that add another 50% Spell Absorption, that's like immunity
to fire, frost, shock and magicka all in one ! For pure fighters, there
is no downside, But you might think, no Magicka regeneration really
gimps a caster ? The obvious solution - Potions - costs time and money.
Shrines and the like replenish Magicka, but wont help in the middle of
a dungeon. Your Spell Absorption will do the trick: If your enemies
don't cast spells on you anyway, summon a wraith (or ghost), hit it
three times and it will start to attack you with magic only. Full
Magicka guaranteed (low level ghosts may damage you a little and take
three or four summons)! If you foresee a tough fight, you can take the
ghost with you to keep your Magicka up. It also works with other
summoned casters, but the ghost/wraith/gloom wraith line works best.

A possible downside: In big fights, pure destruction mages may run out
of Magicka if all opponents are melee without any magic weapons. This
should not happen very often if you followed my "focus on prime damage
skill and attribute" rule - but keeping some self-made Magicka potions
just in case won't hurt. Also, if you are first level and your
summoning skill is 25, summoning the ghost might be more expensive
than the mana returned. This won't happen later on (later as in level
3 and more).

[Clarification: Unlike Resistance, Spell Absorption 50 absorbs 100%
of a spell - and it will work on 50% of all spells]

Note: The Summon Ghost spell or better is essential for this build,
so first thing out of prison should be a quick trip to Chorrol. If you
don't have enough money, sell the Mage Guilds Alchemy equipment & potions.

人物:
Spellcatcher

Race: Breton
Birth sign: The Atronach
Skill package: Combat
Favoured Attributes: Luck, Endurance
Skills: Blade, Heavy Armour, Illusion, Destruction, Conjuration,
Alchemy, Sneak

Normal Combat looks like this: After the initial 6x critical power
attack with a blade imbued with self-made poison, the spellcatcher
tries to keep the attention of his enemy while his pet happily
whacks on the unprotected back. If the enemy is humanoid, he will
fight with bare fists after a few Corrode Weapon spells.

Magic combat is where the fun starts: Instead of avoiding enemy
spells, the Spellcatcher tries to catch them, using the gained
Magicka to play Fireball ping-pong. Alas, most times the
Spellcatcher is the only one with a racquet.

In times of peace, he lets friendly summoned ghosts replenish his
magicka while he's searching ingredients for stronger poisons and
combat drugs.


我想这个例子可以很好地证明,Oblivion的系统不但是10小时新鲜,如果投入上百小时,会更新鲜~

打击感?这个问题我没法评价……我始终无法理解所谓的“打击感”是个什么东西,RPG又为什么需要这种“打击感”……

我坚持认为Oblivion这种做法会成为欧美RPG的趋势。革新的关键不在于“用技能代替等级成长”。这和日式RPG对技能的概念不同,原来欧美RPG体系中,是职业决定技能,而现在职业被虚无化了,你的角色可以学习任何你认为有用的技能,而不受职业、等级、属性的局限。什么是技能?不仅仅是战斗技能,更是和世界深入互动的技能,比如对话、买卖、甚至Fo里那种“你周围的人都会以最血腥的方式死去”这种诅咒般的技能。尽管落实到游戏里,各技能还不完全“平衡”(有些技能从实用性说有些“鸡肋”,虽然我并不认为);但从大局看,Oblivion系统的总体规划是十分精彩的,即除Luck外,每个基本属性对应三个技能,技能成长决定属性增长(即等级增长),而种族、技能包、主次技能、出生星座等都可以看作是对人物技能的微调。技能的深度不再由角色扮演系统决定,而是交给玩家的操作。比如Oblivion里是没有施法失败的,如果技能值太低那就根本无法学习魔法;如果学会了魔法、魔法槽(技能等级)也够,那么就一定能施放成功。这种做法就把玩家从复杂的系统计算中解脱出来,充分享受战斗的乐趣就是了,瞄准就好~

这就是说,系统的复杂性是适度的,不会太复杂影响到战斗的乐趣;也不会太没深度,沦落为ACT。只要你愿意深入,看似傻打的Oblivion一样能利用系统深度自己创造出像上面“吸法师”这样的变态打法——这难道不比DnD里老掉牙的“塑能师、死灵法师”只能放职业和魔法学派规定的那几种法术来得有趣的多么。这就是Oblivion精彩的地方!

[ 本帖最后由 RestlessDream 于 2007-3-15 19:33 编辑 ]



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